Sheila R. Vitale, Pastor, Teacher & Founder
LIVING EPISTLES MINISTRIES

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LIVING EPISTLES MINISTRIES

MESSAGE #483

SOME PRINCIPLES OF THE
DOCTRINE OF CHRIST

The Following Message Has Been Transcribed For Clarity,
Continuity Of Thought, And Punctuation By The LEM Transcribing & Editing Team.
 

LIVING EPISTLES MINISTRIES
TRANSCRIBING & EDITING TEAM
(Listed Alphabetically)

** Transcriber
# Editor(s)
Of This Message

Aurelia C. Bridges, Team Leader
Aurelia C. Bridges, Transcriber & Editor#   
Cecelia Bryant, Transcriber
June Eble, Transcriber & Editor
Kerry LaManna, Transcriber
Lape Mobolaji-Lawal, Transcriber & Editor
Margaret Mobolaji-Lawal, Transcriber & Editor 
Margie Melito, Transcriber
Maria Rodriguez, Transcriber & Editor
Mary Jane Sears, Transcriber & Editor
Nieves Villalba, Editor
Rita Satterfield, Transcriber
Rose Herczeg, Transcriber & Editor
Sue Panbianco, Transcriber & Editor
Sue Willis, Editor  

SOME PRINCIPLES OF THE
DOCTRINE OF CHRIST

Tapes 1, 2, & 3

            Last night, I was trying to get the revelation for verses, starting with Verse 6 onward in Chapter 16, of the Book of Judges. This is the account of Samson and Delilah. This was not the first time that I have looked at these verses. Usually, I just pray for the revelation as I translate the verse, but I am finding the Samson translations and the translation concerning Delilah so difficult that I have been scanning the Interlinear Text almost to the end of Chapter 16 trying to find the spiritual understanding of who Delilah was and what this experience was that Samson had with her, because I believe that the translation in the King James is a surface level translation. 

            We are looking for spiritual depth here. I was having a hard time so I had to scan maybe 10....I think I was up to Verse 16 or 17, almost to the end of the chapter and, apparently, I had to go very deep into the spirit to get this revelation. I have found that the translations that the Lord is giving us now are much more difficult.  I do not really know how you feel about understanding it, but from my point of view of digging it out, the translations that He is giving me now are much more difficult.

             Frequently, they are not obvious...some translations, the symbols are known to me. I can just look at them, even in the King James, and get the spiritual depth of it, because we have unlocked so many symbols, but I had to go very deep to get this understanding of who Delilah is and what was going on in Chapter 16 of the Book of Judges, and I became aware of what I call Halloween characters.

            I believe the Lord is showing me that there is such a thing as spiritual peripheral vision.  Our physical peripheral vision is vision that lets us see things that we are not focusing on. Anybody can practice this.  Look at a tree, look at your husband, look at your wife, look at your daughter, look at a cup on the table, I am staring at that cup on the table right now, completely focusing on that cup, and I see June's foot, I see a camera, I see Rosie's shoes, I see Mary, I see Ceilie's knees, I see a breakfront, I see something laying on that couch, I guess it is a book, I was not sure it was a book, but I saw that it was an object, and I see the chalkboard. I see a lot of things that I am not concentrating on, and these things that I am not concentrating on that I still see are what is called peripheral vision.

            Last night I experienced spiritual peripheral vision as I was meditating deeply on these Scriptures. The way I bring forth these translations is basically this. I scan over the Interlinear Text, and I look for a witness to the spirit of revelation in my heart as to the general context of the message, and when I have an idea in my heart of what the Scripture is saying, I then go in word-by-word looking for a legitimate translation of each word that will support the revelation that I received in my heart, and that is usually the way it happens.

            On the rare occasion that I do not find the witness in the selection of potential, legitimate translations I have to ask the Lord what to do. Either I have made a mistake, and I misunderstood what He was telling me, or I have to pursue another course of study. I have to look at a particular word and go back into its root, or I have to go into an English dictionary or an encyclopedia, and if I cannot find a witness either in the Hebrew lexicons or the English dictionary or encyclopedia, if I cannot get the witness I have to give it up. I will give it up.

            I will not bring forth a translation that I know I cannot support unless....not when I am working with a particular verse of Scripture. Sometimes I get a revelation from the Lord apart from Scripture. It is just a word that He drops in my heart, and at the moment I have no Scripture for it, and I will preach that, if He tells me that something is true. Usually within 6 months to a year I find a Scripture to support it.

            That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about working on a particular verse of the Hebrew Scripture. If I cannot get a revelation in my heart that can be supported by potential Alternate Translations of the individual words I leave it.  I let it go and, frequently, I am saying to the Lord, "I am letting this go, I do not have it, I cannot preach it if I do not have it," and in that instant He will give it to me, but if He does not give it to me, I let it go. I cannot preach what I do not believe. I have to believe it at the moment anyway.

            As I have told you many times there are very few revelations here that I have changed or the revelation has matured. I have found out that I have been using the wrong name, or my understanding of it was a little off, but the basic principles have been consistent from the beginning of this ministry, with one exception. For about 6 months I did preach ultimate reconciliation as it is preached in the church, that all men will be saved, and now I have found out that the truth is that the spiritual root of the creation will be saved, but every temporary formation of personality and every physical body ever born will not be saved.

            I want to talk a little about spiritual peripheral vision. As I was in this very deep place trying to find out the truth about Samson and Delilah my spiritual peripheral vision kicked into a degree that, to the best of my memory, it has never kicked in before. I have had spiritual peripheral vision for a long time, but I did not know that is what it was, because the Lord just gave me this understanding now.    

            I have seen things in the spirit when I am working, when I am in this depth of meditation into the spirit of God. I get words of knowledge, I see images, and sometimes, it must be really funny if anybody would ever tape me.  I think it would be very funny to watch me, because I could be fully intent on a translation, and all of a sudden I look up from my desk, and I will start talking, and knowledge will come out of me as if there was someone else in the room.  Sometimes I am even aware that I have my window by my desk open and that people walking by must surely think there is someone else in the house with me.

            As the Lord brings it forth, I will even stop working on the translation. What is happening is that Christ Jesus is speaking through me. He is not really me. He is speaking through me, and I yield to that. I leave the translation, and I yield to that. Sometimes I have to pray for somebody, sometimes I have to call the person, sometimes I have to write something down. It is not something that you would see in this world. It is very unusual, and the most amazing part of the whole thing is that it does not break my concentration.

            If one of you would come in when I was in a deep concentration, it would grieve the spirit on me, and I have asked you to help me out in that way in certain areas. It grieves the spirit in me when I am that deep, and you come at me with another issue and, in particular, a question that would require me to completely change my mode of thought to another mode of thought.  It is grievous to me, it causes me pain, but the Spirit of Christ can do it, and He just bounces me back and forth from one issue to another. It is amazing, and I do not lose my concentration, because it is all in His spirit, and He can bounce me around like that.

            Sometimes I get a revelation on a totally different study than what I am doing now, and I am just all over the place like that.  My spiritual peripheral vision has been working for a long time, but I did not know what it was. I just thought that I got words of knowledge while I was this deep in the spirit.

            Last night it was different. The best way I can describe it to you is that it was almost like being either on the ocean or in a desert at night, and all that you see is the stars in the dark sky, and in some locations you just feel that you are in the midst of all the stars. Have you ever experienced that, being out on a mountain top? I know it is more like that in the Middle East than it is here, but in certain parts of the world, and possibly on some occasions here if you are out in a lonely place, a mountain range or a desert or the beach you just feel....because the sky arcs, and you just feel that you are in the middle of this sea of stars. Did you experience that in New York? In New Jersey?  That is close enough.

             I know I experienced that in Israel when I was in Israel. The sky is very different in another part of the world, and the stars seem....I do not know if it has to do with the seasons or not, but I felt I was just in the midst of the sky, and the stars were so bright. That is what I felt like, that I was in the midst of a sea of stars, but the stars were not stars as we know them.

            The stars were all Halloween characters, and I cannot even tell you what they were, but they were all grotesque characters, and I have been seeing a lot of grotesque characters in the spirit but not so many at once. Over this past couple of weeks, I have seen a werewolf. I have seen witches. When I close my eyes to go to sleep I have been seeing things, but I just rebuke them and go on because I cannot be letting them stop me.  I just assume that they are curses coming at me but, today, for the first time I am starting to think they may not be curses coming at me, that I may be penetrating into the astral plane, and I am just seeing the characters that abide in the astral plane.

            There were so many last night that I know that I put a strong castle around myself before I went to sleep, and I do not do that as a matter of course any more. Something has to lead me to do it, but there were so many of them everywhere, and I had seen a couple of werewolves during the week.  This morning as I prayed about it, the thought came to me that to get this...I am going deep, in general, and that is why I have been seeing these characters recently, but last night I went so deep to get this revelation that I...I cannot say fully penetrated, but I have nothing to compare it to, but that I was very penetrated into the astral plane. You may recall from our study in Jonah that the astral plane is Satan's world, and it is likened to the sea. It is a sea of energy.

            I have told you that we live in a sea of energy here, and we do. We live in a sea of energy that is invisible to a human, but there is an invisible side to this world. The physical world has two sides to it. The solid side or the earthen side and the waters side. I think it was Peter or John who said, "and the earth stood up," part of it in the water, and part of it out of the water. The earth is in the water, and out of the water. That is one of our earliest messages.

            It would be interesting if I had the time to take a look at it and see what I preached all those years ago, because when I do that, frequently I am amazed to find out the depth of my revelation, but I did not understand it like I understand it now. I understand that in our natural world there is earth under the sea, and that there is earth standing up out of the sea, the solid portion of the world.  The astral plane is the liquid portion of the world.

            Everything is energy, the solid and the liquid is energy, everything is energy. There is energy that is solid, and there is energy that is liquid, and the energy that is liquid is energy that is vibrating at a more rapid rate of speed. The more rapid the energy vibrates the more powerful it is.  The liquid part of the creation known as Satan is the unconscious or the invisible part of this world.

            I know that I have spoken to you about the etheric plane. I am sorry, I think I just made a mistake. It is the etheric plane that is the invisible part of the physical world, and the astral plane is another whole world. I am sorry if I confused you.  This world that we live in is solid, and it is liquid, and the liquid part of this world is the etheric plane. That is all the physical world, and there are many worlds here, and then the astral plane where Satan is, is another whole world.

            I have drawn these worlds on the board for you. I have shown you the energy centers as being one above the other, but the truth is that they are one within the other. The physical part of the creation is where we are. It is called outer darkness, and every world or every level other than this is less and less solid.  You have to pierce through every level to get to the next one.

            Do you remember, some of you may remember, how years ago the apartments were made in apartment buildings?  You all seem to have houses here, but I grew up in the city where they had apartment buildings, and they used to call them railroad flats. There was no hallway. You would enter into one room, and to get to the next room you had to walk through the first room, and to get to the third room you had to walk through the first and the second room, and to get to the fifth room you had to walk through the first four rooms, so if somebody was sleeping or doing something private in one of the first four rooms it was tough on them.

             I guess you did not have much privacy in those days.  This is what the spiritual worlds are like. They are not separate from one another. They are within one another, they are like a spiritual railroad flat.  To get to the mental plane where Christ Jesus is we have to pass through the astral plane. To get to the highest plane of consciousness we must pierce through, pass through, and pierce through all of the other planes.

            We see this type in the Scripture. I cannot give you any names, because that is not my thing.  History and names is not my thing. I am a principle man, but in the Old Testament in the first five books where you find the history of the Hebrew children, especially in Exodus and in Joshua, you find the account of the Hebrew children trying to get to the promised land, and they come up against leaders of foreign lands, and they say to them, "We do not want to fight with you, we just want to pass through, we will not take anything from you, we will not spoil your land, we will even pay you, just let us pass through," and the leaders of the land said, "No, we will not let you pass through."  The Hebrew children had to fight to get through.

            Anyone familiar with the Scriptures that I am talking about?  This is just a type of our journey from our present position which is in outer darkness. This world is outer darkness, and we have to pierce through and pass through all of the other planes of consciousness to find the place and to abide in the place where we will cease from dying. We have to pass through the etheric plane, and the astral plane, and the mental plane is where Christ Jesus is right now, and then whatever else is there.                     

            I have given you some outlines pretty much which I have taken from Occult books which I do as the Lord leads me, and He has not changed anything yet, but who knows? Our minds are finite. We have weak, piddling minds. We can only learn a little bit at a time.  The Lord has a plan for us, and He has a program for us, and He has an order of what He wants us to learn first.  Everything that we learn builds our foundation which enables us to understand other spiritual principles.

            I know that the Lord has not really spoken personally to me about all these different worlds that I have gotten out of the Occult books, but I know they are okay enough for Him to let me teach them to you. I know that they are not harming you, but there may be some adjustments coming up as we continue on.

            Just like when I wrote the book "Sick of the Palsy," I had to re-do two whole pages of that book, because when I talked about the creation of the powers in the individual I perceived it from the Serpent's point of view. I perceived her creating them as she descended, and then after the first 50 copies of the book went out the Lord said to me, "No, Sheila, that is from the Serpent's point of view. From My point of view, the Serpent creates the powers of this world as she ascends. Either she descends or she ascends." I had to rewrite almost two pages of the book. This is how He is doing it, brethren.  It is an imperfect message, and you have to roll with the punches just as I do, and just keep on going.

            As we learned from our study in the Book of Jonah, this great whale that Jonah was in was not an evil entity, and neither was it a judgment or a punishment upon him, but the great fish was Christ Jesus who was acting as Jonah's diving suit.  We know that Leviathan is the principle fish of Satan's waters, but in this particular account Christ Jesus, and in this aspect of our deliverance...what aspect of our deliverance? That we must pass through the astral plane, Christ Jesus compasses us about.  We have found that in the Scripture that He compasses us about. What that means is He seals us in so that as we pass through the astral plane we are not harmed, and the way this is expressed in the Scripture is that Jonah was swallowed up by a whale.

            When we looked up every word, we found out that the whale was not Leviathan. The whale was Christ Jesus who got him safely back to shore.  We are not to ascend unless we are joined to Christ Jesus, because if we ascend without being joined to Christ Jesus we can be apprehended by the entities in the astral plane. Again, I am talking in general spiritual principles. The Lord has brought this message forth spontaneously tonight.

            I do not have a full understanding of what these entities are, or why the way they appear as they do to me, or whether or not that is actually the way they appear or whether their appearance is an illusion. I do not know, but I do know this that I believe that the Lord wants us to have full disclosure of the world that we live in, and that includes the invisible world. He wants us to have full disclosure as rapidly as we can bear it and understand it. That is my belief. He wants us to have it. It is not a secret. It is not a secret. He wants us to have it, full disclosure, but this knowledge is not for people that have a frivolous walk. I do not condemn you if you have a frivolous walk.

            Everybody is in their own place of spiritual growth, but if you are not ready for whatever your reason, if you are not ready spiritually, if you are not ready emotionally to spend hours and hours and hours of your week communing with the Lord, however you do it, attending meetings, listening to tapes, transcribing tapes, however you do it, if you are not prepared to spend hours and hours each week you should not be ascending. It is dangerous for you because...why is it dangerous for you? Because the great fish that Christ Jesus becomes to you as you enter into the waters of the astral plane is formed around you as you commune with Him.

            Brethren, do you know that when we eat a steak or any kind of food that we eat, that is the food for the physical body. We eat a steak from a cow, and it puts...that steak, that flesh from that cow goes through a process that manifests as this human flesh on our body. Can anybody not see that? It is just a conversion of the cow's flesh to our human flesh.

            Brethren, spiritually speaking, when you have your spirit and the Mind of Christ operating in you for hours and hours and hours every week, this is the true communion, and you are eating Christ Jesus, and He is eating you, and His flesh is being built on you just like the flesh of the cow becomes your physical body. Do you know that the cells of our physical body are dying continuously, and that every 7 years we really have a whole new body?

            If we want to keep Christ Jesus compassing us about, we must continue to consume Him. That is how you get your armor on, that is how you get your diving suit on, by consuming Him and Him consuming you. This is the true communion. This is not a religious command. I am not telling anybody what they must do, where ever these tapes are going. What I am telling you is if you are not prepared to do that, and you are still pursuing a lifestyle where you desire spiritual experiences, you just may be ascending in Leviathan's timeline, because to ascend in Christ Jesus you must have Christ Jesus built on you.

            The allegory is that He is this big whale or this big fish, and then you pass through the astral plane unchanged. You pass through the astral plane intact with your body which is made of Christ Jesus, but if you pass through the astral plane, and you are not inside of the Body of Christ Jesus, the entities in the astral plane, I honestly do not know if they are individual entities or whether it is Satan herself. I know that Satan from our present studies is the one that has the spiritual sexual intercourse with the personality when she can. It is Satan who does it.  Maybe it is Leviathan too.          

            A lot of these little details I do not really have worked out yet, but the basic principle is if you pass through the astral plane, and Christ Jesus is not firmly built about you to the point that He in impenetrable, you will be penetrated by Satan, and she will have spiritual sexual intercourse with you, and the results of having spiritual sexual intercourse with Satan is that this kills the resurrected Adam in you. It kills Christ Jesus in you, and then she possesses you completely.

            I am not trying to put you in any religious bondage. What I am telling you is what you need to know, that to ascend spiritually in Christ Jesus a large part of your life must be given over to Him, and I am not talking about giving out tracts or praying as you do the dishes or driving people to the hospital. No matter how important and wonderful these works are, this does not build Christ Jesus in you. What builds Christ Jesus in you and around you is the Doctrine of Christ.  Your communion must be with the Doctrine of Christ, and the one who teaches the Doctrine of Christ, who is Christ Jesus Himself, does not speak in tongues. Is there something wrong with speaking in tongues? No, I speak in tongues on occasion.

            Why did I just tell you this? I told you this to help you to distinguish between the activities that you engage in which are in the Holy Ghost as compared to the activities that you engage in which are in Christ Jesus, because if you are engaging in activities of the Holy Ghost, and you think that these activities are building your defenses against the astral plane on you, you will surely be hurt. The truth will set us free on every level.    

            Christ Jesus communes with us through the Doctrine of Christ. The Holy Spirit communes with us through tongues. Communion with Christ Jesus is only through the Doctrine of Christ.  There are several layers of the Doctrine of Christ. The wisdom that comes forth here, the wisdom and knowledge about manipulation and relationships and submission and the perception of sin, this is part of the Doctrine of Christ too.

            If you are seeking the Lord or having a conversation with another son about trying to understand the operation of envy, and this is not gossip, and this is not cutting people apart, if you are in a right spirit, and you feel that you have been manipulated, but you cannot understand it, and you are trying to figure out where the sin was, that is a part of the Doctrine of Christ. The Spirit of Truth is in the Doctrine of Christ. Tongues are a wonderful thing, but that is not the Spirit of Truth.

            What are they telling you? Tongues have a place, they have a function, they are good, I am not against them, but if you want to have spiritual experiences the only spiritual experiences that are legal in the Holy Ghost are the gifts of the spirit. Tongues, interpretation of tongues, the gift of prophecy, the laying on of hands, praying healing, praying Old Order deliverance, and that is a good thing. Old order deliverance saved my life, but it did not prepare me to pass through the astral plane safely. You choose. Whoever is hearing this tape, you choose.

            First of all, you must diagnose who you are and where you are in the Lord, and if you cannot do it from this message ask the Lord to help you, and either He will help you, or He will send you to someone who can help you. Everyone is not the same, there is a lie going around in the church saying everybody is the same. "There is only one Holy Ghost, everybody is the same."  It is true there is only one Holy Ghost, but His ministry is definitely modified by the personality that He is indwelling, and everybody is not the same.

            Everybody is not as faithful, everybody is not as intelligent, everybody does not have the same level of fear, and everybody does not have the same drive or willingness. That is a false doctrine in the church, brethren. There is only one Holy Ghost, but there is no one else like you or me. We are individuals, and when the Holy Ghost or Christ Jesus manifests through any individual, that is a unique manifestation of the Holy Ghost or a unique manifestation of Christ Jesus. He never changes, but as He flows through you, the ministry that comes forth is unique because you are unique, and there are no two people who are exactly alike.

            What I just said to you, this wisdom that just came forth, this is the Doctrine of Christ. You do not find this wisdom and understanding in the Holy Ghost. You have to be into this kind of wisdom. What is this kind of wisdom? It means thinking the thoughts of Christ Jesus. Thinking the thoughts of Christ Jesus is part of the Doctrine of Christ, because all Christ Jesus thinks is wisdom. Everything that comes out of His mind and that comes out of the mouth of the personality that His mind is in, is wisdom. That personality just drips with wisdom.

            That is what the honey is. Just drips with wisdom. The personality is the honeycomb, the wisdom that just drips down as Christ Jesus.  The more you abide, the more your mind abides in the wisdom of God as well as the esoteric doctrine, the more thoroughly Christ Jesus in His function as a space suit is built around you when you pass through the astral plane. Why would you be passing through the astral plane? Does anybody know why you would be passing through the astral plane?
            COMMENT: To get into the mental plane.

            PASTOR VITALE: Yes, to enter into the mental plane. Christ Jesus is the mental plane and, of course, any points beyond the mental plane. At this moment I do not know how to relate the mental plane to the fifth or the sixth energy center. I do not know how to do it yet. The Lord has to show me how to do that. I know that the fifth energy center and the sixth energy center, those terms are talking about levels of power.

            To say that you are in the mental plane is talking, not about power, but about wisdom. At this moment, I do not know how to relate the two. The levels of power have to do with the Spirit of Christ. Levels of power have to do with spirit. Doctrine or the Word has to do with mind.  Usually when an issue like this comes up it does not take too long for the Lord to show me how to relate the mental plane to the energy centers. Right now, I do not know how to do it, but I am sure He will teach me as soon as my brain can absorb it. Praise the Lord.

            I just have been very deep into the astral plane last night, and I feel that I would like to do a drawing to try and show you this penetration. We are looking at drawing #1, and I have tried my best to depict the journey that we all have as we begin to ascend in consciousness. As I told you before I started drawing, the worlds or the levels of consciousness are all within one another, and please remember I have drawn these worlds as simple lines, but each level has a world attached to it that if we were able to do it we could actually experience that world and the inhabitants of it.     

            The best natural example that I can give you is going to another country. When I first went to Africa it was a radical experience for me. It was so completely different than everything I had experienced in my entire life. I felt that I was displaced into another world, and then when I came back to the United States I had an adjustment to make. That did not happen the second and third times that I went. It just happened the first time that I went, and when I came back to the United States I was in shock for a couple of weeks. I would wake up in the middle of the night to go the rest room, and I would not know where I was.

            That is the best example I could give you of what it would be like if we have the ability to manifest in one of the worlds that is represented by the words simply "astral plane." It is a whole world, it is another place, it has...I do not know if it has terrain like our world does, but it has inhabitants. Each world has inhabitants, and I do not believe that any of them are of Christ Jesus. They are all inhabitants that are in existence because the Serpent has brought forth this creation, and she has brought forth this creation in layers.

            We see that, first of all, the Serpent's timeline is circular, and it is stagnant. It is a black hole as we have been taught in other studies. Leviathan's timeline is a black hole, it lets no air in, and it lets no air out. The people who are in it are trapped and hostile. The inhabitants are hostile.  We see that the Serpent's time line is circular, but Christ Jesus's time line is a linear energy string as depicted by the phrases "Jacob's ladder, stairway, or highway to heaven."

            In Christ Jesus's time line we have the opportunity to ascend eternally in consciousness. I have to tell you, I do not know what that means. All I can tell you is that I have had a few measly experiences of a very strong outpouring of the Spirit of Christ which has let me experience an intense peace and sense of well-being, and safety. As far as I am concerned, I would be grateful for that. What the Lord has for us beyond that, Paul says that eye has not seen and ear has not heard.

            We really do not know what is waiting for us beyond that, but I know that, personally for myself, if I could just have the opportunity to abide day and night bringing forth this wonderful doctrine....I get so excited when I get the revelations, it is an absolute joy to me, and if I could have that opportunity without the problems of pain in my body or any of the other problems of this world that I only have because I am still in my carnal mind.

            Any problem that we have is just because we are still living out of our carnal mind at some level. I am not even hoping for more than that. Obviously, I will take whatever Jesus gives me, but right now that is my hope, to be able to continue on with this wonderful work, to grow spiritually, and grow intellectually in Christ Jesus, to grow emotionally, to grow out of a mentality which I just police continuously so that it does not sin, and to come into a place where I know that I can only do righteousness because my mind is righteous, and where I am delivered from pain in my body and physical needs.           

            I will take that for the time being, but there is an eternally ascending consciousness available to us in Christ Jesus. I do not know what it means. I just know that eventually there is an ascension beyond the physical body. I do not have any more information about it right now, and, personally, I do not even think it is practical, I think the reason I do not have more information about it is because it is not practical to talk about.

            The next thing that Jesus is doing is what we are talking about. We have to prepare the church and prepare ourselves for this journey that Abel or Christ in us is about to embark upon, and we see that the levels, the layers, other worlds within the Serpent's timeline are one. The most outer layer is called ignorance, that is Cain, and that is what the church calls our flesh. It is our conscious mind.         

            Jesus called it outer darkness. Outer darkness is a state of mind, and it is called ignorance. It is a state of mind where the individual that is in that condition has no spiritual knowledge. They live totally in the needs of their flesh, their emotions, and their physical needs. They do not think about spiritual things, they are not interested in spiritual things, and I do not mean to mock anybody, I am just describing a life style.

            They are content to work all week, to lay with their mate at night, to love their kids, to watch the ball game and to eat popcorn. I am not knocking you, but the majority of the people of the world are in this state of mind. They are happy, they can pay their bills. Am I not right, they can pay their bills, they are happy, is that not all they want?  If they can get that, with health, they are very happy. That is all they want, but spiritually speaking this is a condition of ignorance because you do not know the great things out there that are so much better than what you have, and the very fact that you are not even curious means that you are in spiritual darkness. That is why Jesus said that this is outer darkness. You cannot even imagine that there could be something better.     

            I want to tell you that there are people in this world who accept illness, they accept the death of loved ones, they accept all kinds of the horrors of the world as acceptable to them, and they believe that God gave it to them. The only hope they have of something better, if they have a hope of something better, is after death which is not what the Scripture teaches.

            What God is doing is in the flesh. Life is in the flesh, death is in the flesh. Death is a state of consciousness. Life is in the flesh, death is in the flesh, judgment is in the flesh, correction is in the flesh, glory is in the flesh, healing is in the flesh, deliverance is in the flesh, communication is in the flesh, the Doctrine of Christ is in the flesh. It is in the flesh!         

            The question is, which flesh? Because there are different kinds of flesh, the flesh of man, the flesh of beasts, the fish of fishes, and there is the flesh of birds, there is Adam's flesh, there is Cain's flesh, there is Leviathan's flesh.  She is the fish, and Christ Jesus is the fish too depending on the context of your subject, and then there are the spiritual beings. There is Satan and the Spirit of Christ. Different kinds of flesh.

             Brethren, if you want to function in these high planes in Christ Jesus at some point you are going to have to reject your physical flesh. Our natural example is a comparison, for example, between horseback riding and swimming. You do not go swimming in a 9 foot pool with heavy boots, and a riding whip. You may drown. You cannot take this body with you into the high realms of the spirit.    

            It is not even reasonable or practical and only, and again I do not know where these tapes are going, I am not seeking to insult anyone, I am just telling you the truth as I see it. I have flesh also, I have a carnal mind also. Only the ignorance of Cain could think that you could take this physical body and the activities of the body into the high spiritual planes because you cannot. You cannot.

            These spiritual bodies, again I do not have all that much information about them, but I know this that they all co-exist within us, and our best natural example is a bird who does not use his feet when his wings are flapping, and when a pigeon is walking or a sparrow is walking on the ground or any kind of bird, their wings are not working.  We have spiritual bodies which are built on to us.       

            Can anybody guess how our spiritual bodies are built on to us? What must we do to have them built on to us? I was talking about it but not in these terms a little while ago. Brethren, when we engage in the activities of a particular spiritual plane the body for that plane is built on us. This is the same thing I was telling you about Christ Jesus. If you want to be spiritual, I do not know about you, but spiritual things excite me something awful, they always have, all my life, I just love the thought of it, whatever spiritual experiences Christ Jesus has let me have to this date have been very exciting to me.        

            Of course, I have a spiritual experience every day with the Doctrine of Christ, but I am talking about spiritual experiences of the spirit. They are of a different nature. The Doctrine of Christ is intellectual. I am talking about ministry and healing and deliverance. I have not traveled in the spirit yet, but spiritual experiences of the spirit, just the thought of it really excites me, but I do not want anything outside of Christ Jesus so I wait.

            The spiritual experiences in doctrine are mine. I could wake up at 2 a.m. in the morning and receive revelation. That is the point to which I have pierced through, but the spiritual experiences of the spirit are still limited, and I do not have control over them, but as you engage in the activities of a particular spiritual plane, the body for that plane is built into you.  Apparently, I pressed so hard into doctrine by my willingness....it was not even a willingness, I cannot even take credit for it, it had to be the Lord. I had such a drive and still have such a drive to study. A lot of people have told me they could never do what I do. To me, it is sheer joy to nitpick every little word. It is sheer joy so it has to be the call on my life.            

            I had such a drive to pursue this doctrine that the body that I need to function on this plane is very strong in me. I will call it the mental body.  Brethren, we are all pioneers. I will call it the mental body, I do not know what else to call it. The mental body in Christ Jesus has been so developed in me to such a strength, I tell you I could wake up at 2, 3, 4 a.m. in the morning and if I had to I could start teaching, and this is not a gift. I did not get it by the laying on of hands. I labored in doctrine, and the fruit of my labor is that I now have a mental body that I, pastor Vitale, can access at will.

            I remember a couple of months ago, if it was that long ago, that I had some difficulties before the on-line meeting that caused me some frustration, and after the problems were resolved I said to the Lord, "I do not know how I am going to teach." I try to avoid it, I am just all aggravated, I just do not know how I am going to teach. I said, "I do not even have a subject, I cannot hear from you, I do not even have a subject to pursue."  The Lord said to me, "Pick a Scripture." I just sat there, and He said, "Pick any Scripture." I pulled out my King James Bible, and I opened it up, and I picked a Scripture, and He gave me a message on that Scripture that lasted for two meetings. The hindrances to my mental body's functioning seem to me to be almost non-existent at least at the level at which I am. 

            My mental body is the fruit of my labor in Christ. I not only studied, but I fought the warfare, I fought Leviathan. I sought the Lord Jesus, I did not do it in my own strength, I sought for His direction, I followed His direction, and His Body was built in me.  You see people in the Church today or outside of the Church who are ignorant as to spiritual things that are pursuing the spiritual life, but they are not following the Lord Jesus' lead. They are doing it themselves, and a body is being built into them. Maybe it is the mental body, but if it is, it is not the mental body of Christ.         

            Everything that Christ does, Satan counterfeits it. Some of them are building a mental body, and some of them are having spiritual experiences on Satan's level which would be the Spirit of Christ in the true timeline. Once this body is built in you, I am not saying there is no deliverance because who am I to say there is no deliverance? I do not know, but I do know this. This is what I do know, that I come from a very, very cursed family line, and that when the Lord called me, when He had mercy on me, I was about to die. My life was a total disaster physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and it has taken me one long time to overcome those negative bodies that were possessing me at the time.

            There was a lot of place in me, a lot of legal ground for Satan to damage me in all these areas, and I did not get delivered because I answered one prayer line and had someone lay hands on me and break the curse. It took years, and the curses are still breaking on me, but my life is very good. I am very happy with my life, but for years my life was still terrible after the Lord received me.    

            Draw your own conclusions. My counsel to you is to be very careful about building spiritual bodies in the wrong timeline. They do not tear down all that easily, and when you build spiritual bodies they are woven together with your personality, so when you do tear them down, you the individual, experience the pain.  Use a little wisdom.

            To get back to our main subject, the way we build a spiritual body is to pursue the activity which characterizes that spiritual body. It is the same thing as in the world. You want to become a lawyer, you have a dream to become a lawyer.  You know what you must do. You must graduate high school, you must graduate college, you must graduate law school, and then the hardest part is that you must submit yourself to an accomplished lawyer who may very well treat you like you are a moron. This is very common until you learn everything that he has to teach you, and then you go off and become a great lawyer.

            It is no different than this world if you can think of it in these terms.  You need to know that if you are pursuing these studies that you are in the process of building a mental body. You cannot compare yourself to the next person, because the next person is a different personality than you are. Each person has their own obstacles to overcome, but if you are doing it, if you are lending yourself to the activity, the body is being built in you, and you should know that because it is true. It seems to me at this point that the Lord Jesus builds the mental body before He builds the spiritual body.

            I just told you, I just lust to have spiritual experiences but only in Christ Jesus. They are exciting, and they are wonderful, and any spiritual experience that I have had so far I have not had to work for. The Lord just puts these spiritual experiences on me always for a reason to help somebody or to pray for somebody. I do not really know if there will be any activity that I will have to really press into to build my spiritual body in Christ Jesus. If there is I am not aware of it.         

            I am thinking right now that the spiritual body where you have spiritual experiences at will or on a regular basis, they are not nearly as often as I would like them to be, is just an outgrowth of the pursuit of the mental. When your mental body reaches a certain point of maturity you start having these spiritual experiences. As I told you at the beginning of this message, I was piercing through into the astral plane last night, and I do not recall ever having an experience like. I was in the midst of a sea of ghoulish characters. 

            That is not the kind of experience I am looking for, but I am thinking that as you pursue your studies that the Doctrine of Christ and even the King James translation, the Interlinear Text, and the King James translation which we work with, they are the point of contact that the Lord Jesus Christ is using to develop and use our spiritual bodies in us.  The method that He is using is study and intellect.

            I read in a Hindu book once that there are several ways that you can ascend spiritually according to the Hindu philosophy, and one of those methods was an intense study of Scripture. Do you know that the Hindus have Scripture? Do you know that the Christians are not the only people who have Scripture?  Do you know that the newest Scripture around is the Judeo-Christian Scripture? There is Indian scripture, and Egyptian scripture, and Tibetan scripture, and Buddhist scripture that have been around for thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of years, and that the Judeo-Christian Scripture is the new guy on the block.       

            The Scripture says that they studied so much that they became so wise that they became ignorant, and I have always interpreted that to mean that the men and women of the Western world that have gone to college and gotten degrees and locked God and spirituality out of their life, but more and more recently I am coming to the conclusion that it might mean that, but that it also could mean that all of these very sophisticated spiritual philosophies that are in the world today that have such a knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism and I could not hold my own with them. I know, at this point, I could not hold my own with them unless I had a special anointing from the Lord. I am just talking about me, where I am now in my knowledge.          

            There are people that have great amounts of knowledge more than I do. I have only been in these deep studies, not deep studies of the Scripture, but I have only been in the study of spiritual philosophy for a couple of years now. I do not think it is any more than 3 years.

            The Hindu Scripture says one of the ways to become spiritual is to engage in an intense study in the scripture. They are talking about the Hindu scripture, but another way, according to the Hindus, is to practice yoga and another way is to practice deep breathing. Another way is Tantra, to use temple prostitutes. This is all in the Hindu books. There are different ways to ascend spiritually, but to the best of my knowledge we as Christians only have one choice...we do not have a choice.     

            I do not know of any way to ascend in Christ Jesus other than deep, intensely concentrated studies in the Scripture which catapult you into a spiritual plane in Christ Jesus. The Scripture is the point of contact that Jesus Christ uses to raise up His Sons. Study and discipline. Also, in Hinduism, celibacy is one of the choices. Celibacy, the exact opposite of the Tantra which uses the temple prostitutes, both methods can cause spiritual ascension, but not so in Christianity. I would assume in Judaism too, but I have never studied this from the point of view of Judaism.       

            The Lord Jesus does not give us any choice. Deep, intense study which develops your concentration and at least limited, if not total, celibacy. The orthodox Jews are apart from their wives for two weeks out of the month. Discipline, submission to authority was not what the Lord Jesus gives us. If you want to ascend and be convinced that you are in Christ Jesus and, of course, the exposure of your sins, and the revelation of the man of sin within you.    

            We all have a man of sin within us. We have got to meet him. You met him last week. You met her. We have got to meet her. She is in there, and she is hiding, making us think that her thoughts are our thoughts. We must meet her face to face and defeat her. She is in there. She is in everybody. Nobody is free from this. She is in there.  Spiritual experiences in Christ Jesus come through discipline and deep study and the sacrificial life.

            I got off of this drawing. Let us get back on this drawing here. I think I pointed out to you that the Serpent's timeline is circular, and we see that Christ Jesus' timeline is linear. It is straight. I do not know how accurate this is, but I have drawn it as a ladder ascending out of the center of the circle. The first layer is ignorance. That is Cain,  flesh, our conscious mind. Jesus called it outer darkness. The second layer is the spiritual power of the earth. That is the Fiery Serpent. She is our subconscious mind.             

            The reason I do not say Leviathan is because Leviathan is the collective subconscious mind of all of humanity, and Leviathan's tentacle or Leviathan's aspect in us, in the individual, is called the Fiery Serpent. She is his daughter. The Fiery Serpent is Leviathan's daughter. You have heard of the farmer's daughter? She is Leviathan's daughter. It is nice to be able to laugh every once in a while.         
            The second layer that we have to pierce through is the spiritual power of the earth or subconscious mind. That is the power of nature. There is power in nature, brethren. There are people who serve Satan, whether it be white witchcraft or black witchcraft, people who have spiritual power through nature, I should not have said Satan, but through nature.         

            I am told there are tribes in Africa that control the wild beasts with their mind. Lions and tigers and dangerous animals, they walk into the forest with no weapon, and they control the wild beasts with their mind. This is not Christ Jesus, brethren. This is the power of the Fiery Serpent in them.  The beasts do not have a Fiery Serpent.

            Technically speaking, human beings, spiritually speaking, I know physically this is true, we are of a higher order than the animals. We all know that because we make guns, and we go out and we shoot them, but that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about mind. Spiritually speaking, we are of a higher order than the animals, and we should be able to do that. We should be able to make them obey us with our word, but in accordance with all the other studies that have been coming forth here, does anybody know why we cannot do that?

            Why do we not have the power to do that? Because here in the Western world, and also I guess in other parts of the world too...I have to say this in two ways. Those of us who are Christian, Judeo-Christian, we are not moving in the power of the first born. 

            These tribes that have that kind of power over the animals can be likened...just to give you an example, this is probably not exact, they can be likened to Esau. They inherited the inheritance of the first born. They inherited, they were born with, excuse me...the energy of this world. They were born with the...I do not think they practiced it.

             How do you think I got to teach like this? I am telling you, I did not do anything. I listened to my first message, and I sound very much like I do now. I guess I have mellowed a little because I have been practicing all these years. I never trained to preach. The day I preached my first message I had never preached in my life. I inherited this, something I was born with, even my ability to study. Yes, Sheila, the personality, pursued it, yes, I can take credit for following my inclinations, because a lot of people do not follow their inclinations.  I had the inclination to study, and I did it. I had an inclination to preach and I did it, but the inclination and the ability that allowed me to do it, I was born with. Does anyone not know what I am talking about? 

            Everyone has to discover what gift they have and pursue it to the uttermost, because if you are pursuing that which is not the gift that you were born with, you are not only spinning your wheels, and you are not likely to move into excellence, but you are neglecting the gift that you were born with. You have to find out what you were born to do in Christ. You have to find out what He wants you to do.

            These men in Africa control these animals with their mind. They were born with this stuff. Maybe their fathers gave them a little trick here or there. I say all the time, "I could have piano lessons for the next 600 years, and I could not play the piano the way I would like to pray it." I just do not have talent in that area, and I am told that there are music teachers and art teachers that will refuse students. They will tell them, "Look, you just do not have it." Dance teachers refuse students. They will say, "I could work with you for 20-30 years, you just do not have it." 

            Maybe the young men of that tribe are not as accomplished as their fathers when they come of age, and they need a little instruction, but the gift has to be there. The gift has to be there. They are born with the inheritance, with the first fruits of the earth. They are born with the rights of primogenitor.

            The Scripture says it was not what Cain had, but the King James translation makes it sound like he had the authority over Abel, because he was the first born, but that was not what it means if you look at it in the Interlinear Text. If you have a revelation of what the Scripture is really saying, that was not what it means.  

            It means that Cain was born with the rights of the first born, and the first born was the carnal mind. Cain was born with the power, not the authority. The reason Jehovah chose Abel over Cain was that Abel was born with the righteous seed, and Jehovah does not give special place to power. Jehovah gives special place to the right moral order, and the righteous seed rules over the power. 

            I want to tell you, when the Lord raises up ministry, very frequently the person was not raised up in authority, and is weaker than the people they are sent to teach, and the people they are sent to teach try and kill them.  Was that not what is in this message that I am now preaching today?

            I think I found it in Verse 9 of Judges, Chapter 16. That was what happened to Samson, but I do not want to get into Samson now.

            Brethren, this is the way it is. The people that you are sent to teach are filled with pride, and rebellion, and arrogance. They think they are right, and the truth of the matter is that on a spiritual level they try to kill the man who is sent to teach them, who probably has something to teach them knowledge-wise but cannot match their spiritual strength, cannot match the spiritual strength of their witchcraft, and their pride, and their Jezebel, and their arrogance. This is one of the tests that you have to go through to become a Son.

            You better expect to experience this if you are going to be a Son. You have to expect people who you know more than, telling you what to do, and you have to learn how to deal with it without sinning against them. It is part of becoming a Son, it is one of the over comings. This is the way of our world. This is the way it is. This world honors brute strength, but Jesus does not honor brute strength. Jesus honors righteousness, and then He adds His strength to the righteous but weak seed. He is completely opposite than this world.

            I got off the drawing. Let me try again. Let us go back to our board here. I was talking about the Fiery Serpent, the power that is in nature, the power of the subconscious mind. There is power in the subconscious mind.

            Brethren, there is a lot of talk in our nation today about hypnosis, and some people stop smoking with hypnosis. They are playing with fire, because when you minister to your subconscious mind even if it is to stop smoking or for some positive reason, what you are doing is stimulating your subconscious mind. You are stirring up that sleeping Serpent, and if you are doing it outside of Christ Jesus you are building the body of her power in you. Anybody not understand what I just said?

            You are building the body that will enable you to function in her world, and her world is the illegal spiritual power in the world of nature, the nature spirit. She is the queen of the nature spirit. Did you notice how many insects have queens? Bees have queens, ants have queens, lots of insects have queens. There is a queen of the nature spirit. She is the Fiery Serpent, and when you start to call upon her, and is that not what you are doing if you are using hypnosis or any such method? What you are doing is conjuring up the queen of the nature spirit to help you to overcome the lusts of your own flesh which are under her domain. 

            She is not helping you without a price. Once you invite her into your life, even if you are doing it in ignorance, once you invite her into your life, you try and get her out. You try. The worst part of the whole thing is that after she helps you to stop smoking, you think it is the hypnotism, but she will suddenly start influencing your life, and you will not even know it. You will think it is you, and there are curses associated with this behavior. If you do not have problems in your life, you are leaving a legacy of curses for your children, and grandchildren, and your great grandchildren.

            The next layer in is the sea, the astral plane, the spiritual power of the sea, Satan's astral plane, the third level in. It is another world. Satan's sea and the world where her sea is, that is the place where seances reach to, where medium's reach to looking for the souls of the departed dead. They think that they are reaching the personalities who existed in this plane, but they are not. They are reaching beings of the astral plane that are very evil. The astral plane is an evil place, and it is a place of high spiritual power.

            If it happens in this country it is not obvious, but I know in Africa where witchcraft is very acceptable, and all kinds of religion is very acceptable, they are very spiritual people, there are large groups and large cults that worship at the ocean. They go to the ocean and hold their services at the ocean, because they are worshiping the powers that abide in the physical ocean. What they are really doing is worshiping Satan.

            The Wiccas do not like to call themselves witches.  They say they are not witches, but the name of their religion is Wicca, and we know them as witches. They hold their services in the woods. They are worshiping nature spirits, the queen of witches, the Fiery Serpent, and they claim, I do not know how true it is, all of their magic is for good, but the people who go to the ocean to worship, the people that seek out Satan, that is a higher level of spiritual power, and it is frequently evil. I really do not know enough about it to tell you that it is always evil, but it is frequently evil.

            Then there is one more layer to my knowledge at this time that we must pass through on our journey to the mental plane of Christ Jesus, and that is the compound spiritual power of Leviathan and the Fiery Serpent, sometimes known as the vampire bat. That compound energy is called the vampire bat. It is a very high level of spiritual energy, and the person who manifests this kind of power has the spiritual strength to steal energy from other people.

            This concept first came out in our studies of Esau and Jacob, at which time I told you, I could not even imagine what that would mean, and this past Friday night we had a message which revealed to us, at least one way, that a person who knows how to travel in this high plane of spiritual power...I am just calling it compound spiritual power, I do not know what else to call it right now. Unless it is just another level of the astral plane, I am really not sure.

            The Occultist say that each of these planes of consciousness have seven sub-levels.  If that is true, I do not have the names of the seven sub-levels, but I think the Lord told me that this plane of compound spiritual power is just another level of the astral plane. That is what the Lord told me just now.

            We found out last Friday that the people who have developed spiritual bodies that can operate on that plane are engaging in activities or at least engaging in one activity where, as far as I know, they are men.  I do not know if the women are doing this or not when they astral project. That means their mind goes forth in the astral plane, and they engage in an act of physical...they are in the spirit, but they engage a physical woman in an act of sexual intercourse on the astral level.

            I do not know what the astral projecting person experiences, but the woman in the physical body who is experiencing it, it has been reported to me that it is just like an act with men. They experience the whole thing.

            This is one of the activities of the vampire bat which engages in activities on the astral plane designed to steal another person's energy. Why do they want another person's energy? Because they need energy to ascend into the higher timeline.  Christians obtain...and Jews who are truly in the Spirit of Elijah, if that is available to them today, I really do not know, but the Jews that were in covenant with Jehovah where they ascended to this high spiritual place, they get their excess energy from the Lord.

            Satan cannot come to a person and give them extra energy because Satan is the spiritual blood of this world.  The only extra energy that Satan can give you is from another person; therefore, with Satan's authority you ascend into a high level of the astral plane, and she gives you permission to steal energy from other people.  With Christ Jesus, He gives you His energy so you not only do not have to hurt other people to ascend, but when you ascend you have an excess which heals and delivers other people.   

            Energy must be replenished. We must eat food every day to replenish the energy of this physical body, we must engage in communion with Christ Jesus every day to maintain our level of spiritual energy in Christ Jesus, and if you are healing, or delivering, or engaging in any spiritual activities you must be replenished, and the only source of replenishment from the people who serve Satan is other people. That is pretty heavy, brethren. If you really stop to think about it, it is pretty heavy.

            I have talked about the four levels, and we see...here is Cain, Abel down here, Abel or Christ piercing through the first level.  This is a journey of consciousness. Your body does not change. It is not a physical rapture. It is a journey of consciousness, it is an ascension of consciousness. If you must call it a rapture, it is a rapture of your consciousness, but even in that context to call it a rapture is really not accurate, because my concept of rapture as I was taught it in the church is an instant catching up. This is not an instant catching up.

            Nobody ascends instantly, neither in Christ Jesus nor in the Serpent. Ascension is a slow process. It is stressful. Ascension is very stressful, because you are pressing into these other planes, and there are powers and principalities that come to meet you even if you are in Satan. I saw a drawing, an ancient Hindu drawing, I have it in one of my books here, that depicts the negative principle, this is their term, the negative principles of this world that came to meet some Hindu god that was trying to penetrate into the physical world.

            When you try to change your position, you come up against opposition, spiritual warfare, stress, problems in your life.  If you are spiritual enough, you will recognize the warfare on the spiritual plane, but sometimes even if you recognize it, it breaks through, makes your body sick, gives you financial problems, sends some wonderful person that you have been getting along with for years to start some totally irrational fight with you and knocks you right off of your path.

            Spiritual ascension in either spirit requires a calm, determined, and consistent push forward. Stress, strife, worry, or physical pain can turn you off the path. That is why even if you are ill, you must work to the fullest degree that you can work in your illness, because if Satan sees that she can push back with illness she will use it against you time, and time, and time again.

            I am having a little problem now. She slowed me down somewhat, but I put in the effort, and the fruit  coming out of my efforts is awesome. The revelation that has come forth in these last few days since I have been in pain is mind-boggling to me. All I wanted to do was go to sleep at 9:30 last night which, for me, is very early, and the Lord would not let me do it. I was up until 2:30 so I stayed there. I cried the whole time, but I stayed there.  I ask, "Lord, I really want to go to sleep," and if He says, "No," I stay there.

            On rare occasion He has said okay, but He knows what we can do more than we know what we can do, because I did not think I could make it until even 10:00 o'clock last night, and I made it until 2:30. He knows what we can do. That is why everything must be submitted to the Lord, and yet if He is releasing you, and you are staying anyway because of a martyr spirit, there is no glory in that either. He is supposed to be in control of your life.  Is that not what He is supposed to be?

            Here we see Abel or Christ. Can anyone tell us the difference between Abel and Christ? I see we are at the end of the tape, and I do not know that I am going to go to another tape.  Abel or Christ has to penetrate, He has to pass Cain, He has to pass the Fiery Serpent, He has to pass Satan, and He has to pass the ascended immortals which I am calling the vampire bat, and each level is a different war. Each level promotes different problems, but we grow and mature spiritually until we finally pierce through into the mental plane of Christ Jesus which is in the heart center.  As we pierce through all these levels, if our spiritual eyes are open, we can see the inhabitants of the land. (End of Tape 1)
           

TAPE 2
 

            When I say that I see the inhabitants of the land in the astral plane, I am not talking about personalities who have passed on. It is my firm belief that both the physical body and the personality disintegrates after the death of the physical body. These entities in the astral plane, I am not really sure who they are. I do believe that there are two beings incarnating these days.

            I believe that Christ Jesus is incarnating in many men. If you have the Holy Spirit, if you have Christ Jesus, you are an incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is incarnating. I do not say reincarnating; although, the term would not really be wrong. I do not use that term because it sounds too much like the Hindu and Buddhist doctrine of reincarnation which preaches salvation by works, and that is not what I am talking about.

            We believe that we are saved through union with the Spirit of Christ, and the reason for Jesus' many incarnations is that He is having a war, He is engaged in a warfare with Satan and Leviathan to join to our human spirit so that we should be saved. Did I make that clear? The reason Jesus is incarnating many times is because Satan and Leviathan are possessing the creation and resisting Christ Jesus from joining His spirit to us which will save us.

            This is the reason for Jesus' many incarnations. He is not incarnating to perfect Himself, He is already perfect. Neither is He incarnating to perfect us. He is incarnating to lay hold of us and join us to Himself and bring us to where He is, and this is a battle because Satan and Leviathan presently possess the creation, and it is not that Jesus is not strong enough. This is just the way it is. If He did it any faster, it would probably kill us.
         
           We see that Jesus is incarnating. He is reincarnating but not in accordance with the Eastern doctrine of reincarnation. Jesus clearly said, "If you can receive it, here is the Spirit of Elijah," if you can receive it. The personality is not reincarnating. The Spirit of Christ is reincarnating but there is, at this time, another reincarnation taking place in our world, and this is the many incarnations of the spiritual sperm of Jehovah's seminal fluid which was deposited into the earth for the specific purpose of building a civilized spiritual man in Jehovah's image.

            When the primordial Serpent killed Adam, she stole the sperm and engraved them with her nature.  We have, only the Lord knows, how many millions and trillions of spiritual sperm who became evil. The Lord gave me that translation years ago. It is in Job. The King James translation says that the sons of God sang with joy, but I looked it up in the Interlinear Text, and I knew the spirit of revelation was telling me, "No, it means they became evil."

            Of course, both translations could be legitimately extracted from those Hebrew words, but I did not really know what it meant that they became evil, the sons of God became evil. How do you become evil, brethren? Your nature changes. How do you become righteous? Your nature must change. We are the clay. The spirit that engraves us imparts their nature to us, and Adam was the guardian of Jehovah's spiritual sperm which came forth in Elohim.  When Adam died, the primordial Serpent captured all of the sperm and engraved them with her nature and, brethren, these are who the immortals are.

            We found out in another study that one of the major points in this transference of nature, one of the major points in the conflict that resulted in the initiation of this timeline was that the primordial Serpent said to Adam, "I know you have children." Adam was the zygote, he had all of the seed within him, and the primordial Serpent said, "Let us mature them with experience."  Who was the primordial Serpent? She is the mother of all living. She is the earth, the womb of the earth. She said, "Let us mature them with experience," but what did Jehovah say? Does anybody remember what Jehovah said? How were they to be matured?

            COMMENT: Only through union with Him.

            PASTOR VITALE:  Right, through union with Jehovah. When the union is complete we will have all knowledge, and it will be a knee-jerk reflex reaction. Does  the New Testament not say that when Jesus appeared after His resurrection, I believe it was when He was on the road to Emmaus, and the Scripture says, "And He expounded on all of the Scriptures that had to do with Him." He did not do that in His flesh. Jesus had become so completely intertwined with the very Godhead that He was the Godhead, and that was how Adam was to gain his wisdom and his ability to deal with the Serpent. 

            Adam was under the law, "Thou shalt not join with the primordial Serpent in an ungodly relationship, and thou shalt not train up your children by experience."

            I was talking about the inhabitants of the land...I should not even say the inhabitants of the land. I should be saying the inhabitants of the sea. We were talking about the astral plane. I believe that I was penetrated very deeply into the astral plane last night.  The question might arise in your mind,  if I was only penetrated as deeply as the astral plane where am I getting all this revelation from if you have to be in the mental plane to get this revelation?

            This is the answer. For me to have this revelation Christ Jesus in me has penetrated into the mental plane a long time ago, but my personality was penetrating into the astral plane last night.  When the spiritual part of yourself, apart from your personality, penetrates into spiritual planes you have no memory of it. All memory requires the involvement of your brain. Christ Jesus bypasses your brain. Again, I am just telling you very honestly, I do not have all the information on this so I am speaking in generalities. If you have any questions there is a good possibility I will not be able to answer them. I pretty much tell you everything that I have.   Christ Jesus goes before us, or if you are in the Serpent's timeline the Fiery Serpent goes before the personality.  For me to be doing what I am doing here, Christ Jesus in me has to be fully established in the mental plane, which I believe is the heart center, and I think that He is higher. I think that He is in the neck center, the 5th energy center.  That is my opinion.

            I have touched on this briefly, but not a lot so you may not remember it. Just as when the Hebrew children crossed the Jordan the priests went first, and the people followed, and there was a significant separation of time between the time that the priests crossed over and the rest of the people crossed over. Christ Jesus is our High Priest, He does go before us, and Christ Jesus is the Warrior in the heart center.

            Christ Jesus has penetrated into my heart center. He has, and probably still is, fighting in an on-going warfare with Satan and Leviathan, and when the land, the land is the heart center, when the land becomes clear enough or safe enough for the personality to enter in...remember, the personality is symbolized by an ox. We are the animal that can be slaughtered by the negative principles of the creation. 

            When Christ Jesus, the High Priest, has made the land safe for habitation He starts to bring the personality after Him. Memory is in the personality. The personality is attached to the physical body. Memory is in the personality, and a brain is required for memory. 

            When Christ Jesus in you pierces through to any level it is highly unlikely, I cannot speak with the authority that would say you would never experience it, I really just do not have enough information, but to the best of my information this is why we frequently do not remember our dreams, or if we have any memory of our dreams at all they are garbled and not clear. It is because it has something to do with the involvement of the brain in the experience.

            Most spiritual experiences that we have, we do not remember when we wake up because it is the spiritual element in us having the experience, not our personality. For me to have had the experience that I had last night the answer was not coming to me, and I believe that this is Christ, is that He has begun to bring my personality into the heart center. If I am understanding this accurately, I penetrated last night into the astral plane unless I was in the etheric plane, but I do not think so, because it is my understanding that the etheric plane is insects, and these entities did not look like insects.

            They were ghoulish characters, and the word in my heart, I am just giving you what is in my heart, I have to believe Christ Jesus is preaching this, the word in my heart is that it was the astral plane, that I penetrated deeply into the astral plane. Of course, it is a penetration and a withdrawal, a penetration and a withdrawal. I only got as far as I got into the astral plane, because I was so concentrating on these Scriptures to try to understand or to try to hear from the Lord as to the spiritual meaning of them that my whole person was in it. 

            The way you put your whole person in it is with concentration, and this is why I encourage all of you to go with your computers, no matter what you are doing, even if you are just looking up how to download windows, develop your concentration because concentration pulls all of you together.  We are in parts. We are really in parts, and it is possible for someone to be scattered all over the place. Even in our society, we have the word "scatterbrain." It is possible to have our minds scattered all over the place, and mind is energy.  To penetrate into these other planes and to ascend, we have to pull ourselves together. We have to pull ourselves together because we need the energy of the whole to pierce through.

            We need the energy, we need all of our energy focused together to pierce through these planes.  We must be trained in concentration and mental discipline if we hope to ascend. The Lord has shown me that learning to use a computer is His choice of training you all, and you all have computers. Is that not great!!

            That is the answer. Christ Jesus in me, I believe, is in the neck energy center, and He is starting to bring my personality in.  As soon as I came out of that....it is really a form of a trance that I go into, the concentration is so intense that sometimes I have been in a situation like that, and I do not even hear people talking to me. I am just in another world.  I penetrated that far because my concentration was that intense, and when I gave up the study, when I stopped the study, my personality which is also an energy stream...the only thing solid is this body, the personality must have flowed back out.  I do not know when it will happen again.

            I had an experience a year or two ago, I had a spiritual experience that was wild when I was in a deep study, and I have never had it again since. I do not even remember it completely, but I seemed to be perceiving the two windows of creation. In my mind's eye or where ever I was spiritually, just like I saw these entities last night, I saw what looked to me like the two windows of creation. I did not write up any notes, I really do not remember exactly what it was that I saw. It would be as if, to give you an example, I was looking at two rooms at the same time, as if I could see through that wall, and I was looking at two rooms at the same time. It only happened once. It was at least a year ago if not more.

            Whether or not I will have the experience that I had last night again, I do not know, and I never did get an answer as to what that was, but as I talk to you about it I am wondering if it was not the etheric plane. I do know as we press forward with our studies, and confessing our sins and repenting, which is a part of our personal relationship with Jesus, talking to Him about everything, making Him our best Friend, talking to Him about everything that we think and feel and desire, talking to Him about our sins, talking to Him about everything as we pursue this lifestyle, we will enter in.

            We will penetrate into these higher planes of consciousness encompassed
about by Christ Jesus in safety and we, the personality, will make it to the heart center as well as Christ Jesus.

            I am not really sure what the signs of the personality being in the heart center are, but the signs of Christ Jesus being in the mental plane is that you are having some understanding of this Doctrine of Christ, some aspect of Christ Jesus in you must be in the mental plane. He does not have to be all in the mental plane. He is an energy stream, but there has to be some part of Him in the mental plane for you to have any understanding at all.

            If you are hearing this tape, and you say, "I listen to your tapes, and I cannot understand a word you are saying," this is what I have to say to you. If you desire this spiritual path, if you will listen to these tapes and read these books even when you do not understand them, Christ Jesus will begin to penetrate into the mental plane. Your concentration, your focus, your effort on pursuing the materials here will bring Him into the mental plane, and then once He gets in He brings your personality.  As He brings your personality in, your life begins to heal. That is the way it works.

            I have one more point to make. I know it is very late, but I did mention the difference between Abel and Christ. We will just take this question before that.

            COMMENT: Pastor Vitale, I am looking at the drawing on the board, and I see where it says the mental plane is Christ Jesus, but I am looking at that, and the heart is on that. That, to me, would be the 5th level of consciousness, and I would think that the heart was the 4th.

            PASTOR VITALE: Yes, that is a very good question. Try to remember that we are dealing with two timelines here, and you may recall that I did preach it as the left and right side of the heart center, but there is really two heart centers. I know on one message it did come up that, from the point of view of the righteous timeline, the heart center is the 5th center, because the 4th center as the heart center was not in the Serpent's timeline.
             
           What is very interesting that you should even bring that question up right now is that when I was praying about Verse 9 of Judges Chapter 16, the King James translation said, "And Samson told Delilah all of his heart."  I am not going to get into Samson now, but I am sure you have got an inkling that this King James translation is just an allegory and a parable, and it is not true at all.

            I just did not get it, I was just walking around as I was getting ready for bed just saying, "Lord, all of his heart, all of his heart, what does that mean?"  The answer was that he told her all about the doctrine of the heart center, and then I said, "Lord, what is the secret of the heart center?  I am going around saying, "I cannot even go to sleep Lord, what is the secret of the heart center?  The answer that He gave me was that there are two parts of the heart center, and the King James translation says, "He told her all about the whole heart center." I thought your question was very interesting. Do you understand what I said. Yes.
           
            There is a secret or a doctrine of the whole heart center, and the Lord just told me that the mystery that Delilah wanted explained to her was how Samson was holding the two heart centers together. What we are talking about here is the kingdom of the two heavens. I preached on that years and years ago. There are two minds. We have the carnal mind, and we have the Christ mind, but there is not supposed to be two minds. We are supposed to be single-minded, and the way we become single-minded is to lace or strap one mind to the other, and they are wrapped together piggy-back.

            The relationship of the two minds...in other words, which mind is underneath and which mind is on top determines the nature of the whole man. Christ Jesus must be on top of the female carnal mind, and when Christ Jesus is on top of the female carnal mind, and the Scriptural example is that He puts a saddle on her and sits on her, and that is the spiritual marriage. He saddles her, and He sits on her. That is the spiritual marriage. Then the two minds function as one mind, and the whole man, the person including the personality, has the nature of Jehovah, because Christ Jesus has the nature of Jehovah.

            As I looked ahead on all of those verses in Samson and Delilah, Delilah is trying to find out the secret of his great strength.  Brethren, not his great strength to tie foxes tails together and burn them. She is seeking to find the secret of Samson's great strength to hold his carnal mind captive under the authority of the resurrected Adam because, brethren, we have the same opportunity. 

            When Christ Jesus in us ascends above the carnal mind, and covers the carnal mind, and binds the carnal mind, puts a saddle on it, binds it up, and rides the carnal mind like a horse we become single-minded in Christ Jesus, and this is ascension into the brow energy center. We become a supernatural spiritual, civilized man, and we cease from dying.

            What Delilah wanted to know was, "Samson, where do you get the strength to saddle the carnal mind?" Actually, I am crossing over here. I gave you the example of the carnal mind, but in our studies today we are really talking about saddling the Fiery Serpent. That was the way I preached it a couple of years ago, the two minds. At the moment I am not even sure if that is the same thing as saddling the Fiery Serpent or if it is a different aspect, I do not know. You are just going to have to flow with me today, but I gave you this principle of the kingdom of the two heavens so that you can understand what is happening with Samson and Delilah.

            Delilah is the Fiery Serpent in the mortal men of Israel, and they, the personalities of the mortal men of Israel, are so completely in agreement with their subconscious mind, with the Fiery Serpent, that for all intents and purposes the Fiery Serpent is the mortal man of Judah, and they are physically speaking into this physical world words that express the thoughts of the Fiery Serpent.

            This is Samson having an interaction with a group of men that he is sent to, to raise Christ from the dead in, and to deliver into the high realms of the spirit, and this whole group or this congregation is female to Samson.  Brethren, if you want to believe...I tell you this all the time, I will never argue with you if you want to believe the King James translation, but one of the things that I am here to do is to raise your consciousness to at least get you to get to a place where you read something, and your mind functions and you say, "This really does not make sense."

            This is not an issue of faith. Brethren, if you choose to think that this super hero, Samson, this supernatural, super powered, supernatural, macho man who was undefeatable because of his relationship with Jehovah and Elohim, if you think that a man like that can fall asleep and leave his safety to some little female to awaken him and tell him that the Philistines are at hand, if you choose to believe that, I will not argue with you. 

            I hope after you hear this tape that I have, at least, put a question in your mind, and if you need a natural example I just give you all the movies that you have seen over the years about great soldiers, how they sleep with their gun under their pillow, how as soon as a foot step sounds outside their tent they are awake, because they are a soldier through and through. 

            You think this supernatural giant who, as a part of his supernatural power, surely he has discernment, and if not even that, this man has Adam resurrected in him, and Adam has a relationship to Elohim. This man, Samson, is completely connected to the Godhead, and you think Adam did not warn him that the Philistines were coming, and Michael did not warn him that the Philistines were coming, that there was no discernment operating, that there was no protection from the Godhead which was supposed to be defending him, that he had to take this little woman that he just had illicit sex with to warn him that the Philistines were coming, and that when he heard her voice it never occurred to him how strange Adam did not warn me, Michael did not warn me, how strange?

            Brethren, I think that is very strange, and I do not believe that it happened. I can still be your friend if you want to stay with the King James, you can still be friends with me. I will tell you, until very recently I believed it myself so we will all be fools together, but the only thing that matters is that we come out of our foolishness. We are all in darkness, we are all in ignorance. You can only go as far as you have light. I am a very enlightened person in Christ Jesus, but I get to that border, and I come up against something that the Lord has not shed light on, and I am just as ignorant as the most ignorant person out on the street in that area.

             As we pursue these studies, as the Lord brings my focus, as the Lord brings my attention to a particular Scripture I look at it and I say, "That just really cannot be true." This is not an issue of faith.  It is not that I read in the Scripture that Jehovah delivered the Hebrews by smiting a whole army, I could believe that. This is not the same thing. I hope you can hear the difference. This is not the same thing, because what I am doing is that I am comparing the story in the King James to what I know about the household of God.

            Who is the defender of the personality that serves the household of God? Christ Jesus within us. In the Old Testament it is the resurrected Adam. He defends us. We just had this in an on-line meeting. Adam, Jehovah's watch tower in the individual, he ascends to the brow energy center where his symbol is a great eagle that flies out over the ocean. He flies out over the astral plane, and he sees all the dangers, and when he sees it he drops fire on it, but Adam never spoke to Samson? This little woman who just fornicated, she was the one who warned him?

            No, brethren, no. You cannot tell me that, but you take a person who has faithfully read the Bible for 50 years, but they have read the King James translation for 50 years, and you cannot tell them, or they will not hear what I am saying, and the reason they will not hear what I am saying is, because they do not have the foundation that we have here in the Doctrine of Christ, that we know that Adam is Jehovah's watch tower.

            Something must be wrong with the translation that even if you do not believe that Delilah is the Fiery Serpent, even if you do not believe that, if you choose to believe that she is a human woman, then you still have to ask yourself how a female delivers the mighty man of God? Brethren, this is against every spiritual principle that I have ever come across.

            I hear somebody saying, "But she did not deliver him, it was phoney." I know she did not deliver him, but his response to her, if it really happened according to the King James translation, Samson's response to Delilah was that he believed that this fornicating woman could be his deliverance. No, brethren, no.  Samson did not believe that. Samson had a face-to-face relationship with Adam. It is in the translations, "and Adam said to Samson, and Adam said to Samson, an Adam said to Samson."

            I do not believe I am where Samson was. I believe he was fully ascended, but I know that the Lord has me at a place right now where some well-meaning person who is not in Christ comes to me with a suggestion, and the Lord has me in a place right now where I am so strong in that area. I am not 100%, I hope I do not get tested because of the statement.  I am not 100%, but I am so strong in this area that when they tell me something that does not click with the whole foundation and body of wisdom that was being built into me, I can look right at them and say, "Thank you very much, but I really do not believe that was Christ, I will pray about it, but I am telling you right now that I think it was your carnal mind." There was a time I could not do that.

            What am I telling you? Samson, I believe, was more ascended than I am. Surely he should say to his fornication partner, "Where do you get this information from, are you sure? Maybe you just heard a rabbit outside the tent." No man of God lets a woman stand watch for him, brethren, because if you are a spiritual male, and you let a spiritual female, whether it is in a physical male body or a physical female body, if you let a spiritual female stand watch for you, you will not be a spiritual male very long because every spiritual female, now hear this, I am telling you the truth, we are a fallen people.

            I do not care how nice you are, I do not care how good you are, I do not care how well you prophesy, I do not care if you fast and pray, and I do not care if you are doing the absolute best you can to deal with your own sin, you are fallen, you are fallen, we are all fallen, and everyone of us has a principle, a negative principle within us, which is programmed to bring down Christ.

            You have to know it, she is in there. You can deny it, you can blind yourself to her, but when you do that you are giving her free license. You are supposed to be seeking her out, you are supposed to be looking for her, you are supposed to be saying, "Lord show her to me that I might put a saddle on her and stop her up for good."

            This is why the Scriptures say, "Husbands love your wife, and wives respect your husband."  Love is not enough for a spiritual male from a spiritual female.  Whether we are talking in the physical or we are talking in the spiritual, when the relationship goes from female to male, love is not enough. You must honor the office. I mean, assuming you have a Godly man in the physical, and if it is in the spiritual you should know who is a spiritual male around you or not.

            You are supposed to know that they are on a level in spiritual matters that you have not yet ascended to. It is not enough to love them, you have to respect their office, and how do you respect the office? You do not try to put them under you, and I have been preaching it here for years. It is real simple. If you think that you have really got something that they really need to know, you give it to Jesus. There are legitimate circumstances to give information to the man of God, but if you respect that man of God you will give it to Jesus first. You will put it through the filter, and the chances are the spiritual male will come asking for that information.

            Most likely that is the way it will work. You will say, "Lord I have this information, I really think the pastor could use it, but I do not want to be a Jezebel, I am just putting this in your hands, if you want him to have it you are going to have to open that door," and the next week you come into church, and I am asking for that kind of information. That is the way it works.
 

            You were transcribing tapes for us for a long time, but you are only doing a little bit here and a little bit there. The way the transcript ministry really got a big thrust forward was that someone new came into the ministry that had a computer and had a drive to transcribe tapes, and all she did was pray and the Lord approved.
 

            What happened, the idea came into my mind, "Wow, so-and-so has a computer, I wonder if she would want to give us a hand," and when I called her and asked her she said she was waiting for three weeks, praying for three weeks, waiting for me to call her and ask her. That is right order, and that is being spiritual. That is being spiritual, because if you have a suggestion for the man of God, and you bring it in your carnal mind you are out of order, and you are not respecting him.

            When you go from male to female, I am talking about spiritually speaking, of course, a husband has to respect his wife and treat her decently and, of course, today things are different. We have a lot of very educated, intelligent women around. If you are in the physical now, and your wife has something intelligent to contribute you should listen to her, you should respect her, but we are talking about the scriptural type right now.
 

            The housewife who from years gone by is not educated or who is not sophisticated, the husband is the one that has all the knowledge, that studies, and goes out into the world, you do not respect your wife in that sense, but you are the one that has the bulk of the knowledge and the wisdom. You love your wife. How do you love her?  You do not make her feel that she is stupid if she does not know what you know, if she does not know something you teach her, if she does something wrong you explain it to her and help her to do it right. That is how you love your wife, but that is not how a wife treats a husband. The wife respects the fact that the husband has the wisdom and the knowledge in the marriage.

            If you have a marriage, and the husband is not fulfilling his role you have got a problem, but that is another whole story.  That is not the subject of this message. My whole purpose of even telling you this was just to give you a physical example of a spiritual type.

            The spiritual male teaches and explains to the spiritual female everything she needs to know without destroying her self-esteem, and that is the love of God. The spiritual female respects the fact that the spiritual male, in most instances, when it comes to spiritual matters of wisdom or counseling, that in most instances the spiritual male will be, at the very least, hearing from God. 

            If you have an article or a newspaper article or something that you want to share, then you pray and ask if you should give it to the man or God, but when it comes to a decision-making situation or revelation, of course, you can get a revelation that I do not have, of course you can, but you have to go through channels if you want to be respecting the office of spiritual male.      You have got to go through the Lord. He may tell you to speak it out, but I am telling you that if you have a revelation, and it comes forth in the carnal mind you are out of order, and the chances of your bringing it forth in the Christ mind without first filtering it through God are slim.  Everything has to be in right order.  I will go out on a limb and tell you that I know that no man of God in Samson's position would have ever jumped up and grabbed his weapons and took a battle stance because a woman he just fornicated with told him that the Philistines were upon him. He probably would have put his arm around her and said, "Oh, you are just jittery honey."

            When I first started reading this Bible I did not realize that the characters in the Bible were real life characters.  I did not realize it until the Lord showed it to me a while later, a year or so later which is very fast, that these are real people in this Bible, and that you have to look past the surface of the words to understand what is going on in their lives and in their hearts. Of course, the only way you can look past the surface of the word is through a combination of your own personal experience and what the spirit of revelation shows you. Of course, that includes your knowledge,

            I have mentioned this once before that this body of wisdom that is being built in us, maybe that is just another word for the mental body in Christ Jesus. I know the Lord gave me that term. We have a body of wisdom in us. I know where the judgment comes from. It comes from the Spirit of Christ, or the Spirit of Elijah, or it comes from Michael. I know where righteous judgment comes from, and I know that its purpose is to purify and restore, and you cannot tell me otherwise. No one could tell me otherwise.

            This translation, this body of wisdom in me, is standing so tall that a translation that I read must line up with it.   If the translation does not line up with it, I have to start praying and digging because something is wrong, and the problem with most of the Christians today is that they do not have the body of wisdom. What most of the Christians today are using as a body of wisdom is the King James translation. They are making the King James translation the touchstone, and when they hear the Doctrine of Christ they say, "No you must be wrong because I am judging everything by the King James translation." Disaster, disaster!

            Every translation must be judged by the body of Christ which has been built in me through an intense relationship and overcoming experiences with Christ Jesus. You have to get past Him in me, the Watch Tower, Jehovah's Watch Tower. He lives in me, He is my guardian, He is my defender, He shows me false doctrine. This is shocking to people in the church, if they are touched by....

            You have made the translation brought forth by the carnal mind your touchstone. A translation brought forth by the carnal mind is what you judge everything that you experience in the church by. How can you live? It is like trying to take in food through your arm. How can you live? How can you possibly make a ri